<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">FYI, the initiative out in California passed. California is such a big market that the changes there could affect the nation. As I understand it, the ruling will virtually ban CAFOs for pork and poultry and greatly change rules regarding feedlots for cattle. To be a little contrarian, this could lead to an increase, at least temporarily, in those animal management practices elsewhere.<BR><BR>Justin Johnson<BR>Missouri Prairie Foundation<BR>Executive Director<BR>573-356-7828<BR>www.moprairie.org<BR><BR>--- On <B>Sat, 10/25/08, Kevin Carpenter <I><kevinc@mysticplains.org></I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Kevin Carpenter <kevinc@mysticplains.org><BR>Subject: [Prairie_Beef] [Fwd: RE: pro 2 in california prairie grass fed beef]<BR>To: prairie_beef@mysticplains.org<BR>Date: Saturday, October 25, 2008, 12:24 PM<BR><BR><PRE>
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: pro 2 in california prairie grass fed beef
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 16:21:45 -0500
From: Steve Clubine <Stephen.Clubine@mdc.mo.gov>
To: Kevin Carpenter <kevinc@mysticplains.org>
CC: carpenter@mysticplains.org <carpenter@mysticplains.org>, Bill White
<Bill.White@mdc.mo.gov>, Max Alleger <Max.Alleger@mdc.mo.gov>,
kelly_srigleywerner@fws.gov <kelly_srigleywerner@fws.gov>, Brent Jamison
<Brent.Jamison@mdc.mo.gov>, holycow@planetkc.com
<holycow@planetkc.com>
References:
<443322.74136.qm@web37101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>,<2f2e63bf0d861595c16b051682d56622.squirrel@www.seaplace.org>
<1F679AAACBA1D54E89145CFE5466CCC205DB4F8FDC@EXCHANGE.mdc.state.mo.us>,<de9021600e7195983128e9bbb21b67fe.squirrel@www.seaplace.org>
The amount of time (months) that it takes to get a calf to slaughter weight,
minimum 1100 lb., obviously depends on the rate of gain. Optimum is 2 lb/day on
grass. Feedlot operators strive for 3-4 lb/day but look what they do to
acchieve it (read Ombnivores Delemma by Michael Pollan). If we could maintain 2
lb/day on grass, a calf of 60-80 lb. birth weight could weigh 1100 in 500 days
or about a year and 4 months. We have averaged 2 lb/day on native prairie
during the patch-burn grazing trials and 2.65 for 90 days this year at
Buschwhacker C.A. We ranged from 2.3 to 2.8 on planted nwsg with 60 lb/ac. N.
at Seat C.A. from June 1-August. The N was mainly so we could boost stocking
rate to 1 ac./steer instead of 2 ac./steer and get the higher gain about 30 days
later than we normally would expect to get it on nwsg. We delayed stocking to
allow for nest initiation. Today, I worry less about nesting on nwsg and would
move cattle off smooth brome and timothy (or not stock
csg at all in the spring) to allow for nesting there. Based on unpublished MO
data and managers' experience in Ill. and research in SE Nebraska, nests in
idle brome or timothy are significantly more successful than nests in prairie or
nwsg and 4x more successful than nests in tall fescue. Grazed prairie, nwsg, if
grazed heavily enough, provide good brood cover. Even severely grazed tall
fescue, if it has enough ragweed and other weeds is readily used by broods.
So, devote a small area of tall fescue (10 ac.) as a sacrifice area for
March-April grazing. Move yearlings to 1/4 patch-burned nwsg around May 1. The
nwsg acreage constutes about 1/2 of acreage. The remainder minus 10 ac. is
smooth brome/timothy/alfalfa, preferable adjacent to the nwsg.. Let the
yearlings have access to the csg around June 1. Continue grazing free choice
through August, then restrict to brome, timothy, and fescue throughout the fall.
Maintaining 2 lb. gain will take winter annual, in my opinion. Wheat, winter
oats, barley, rye, and triticale work well and could finish them.
You can remove tall fescue from nwsg and smooth brome using about 1.5 qt.
glyphosate (e.g. Roundup or Glyphos) and 4-6 oz/a.c imazapic (e.g. Plateau or
Panoramic). You will lose most the next year's csg production but the brome
and maybe timothy will recover by fall and remain largely fescue free for
several years.
This a very quick and dirty summary and may not apply to your situation at all
but it is something to think about until next week.
Steve
________________________________________
From: Kevin Carpenter [kevinc@mysticplains.org]
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 3:12 PM
To: Steve Clubine
Cc: carpenter@mysticplains.org; Dave Murphy; Bill White; Dave Erickson; Bill
McGuire; fowler@nwf.org; Max Alleger; Mari Macomber; mike.currier@dnr.mo.gov;
ltossing@aol.com; kelly_srigleywerner@fws.gov; jburknwtf@ktis.net;
jwildman@tnc.org; seekg@grm.net; hddonnell@hotmail.com; Andrew Forbes;
alan.leary@modot.mo.gov; abuechler@confedmo.org; hazelwoods@mchsi.com;
burwick.charles@sbcglobal.net; Brent Jamison; burwick.charles@sbcglobal.net;
holycow@planetkc.com
Subject: RE: pro 2 in california prairie grass fed beef
Thanks Steve.
I had a single reference (an old 1970s "how to raise your own beef for
food" book) that it took 2 years of growth as the reason you HAD to feed
grain, with the marbling grain creates as another reason. Thanks for
providing confirmation (I never believe anything I only have one reference
for!)
The grass rotation is something I'm trying to get a good handle on now,
with my little introduction herd of 10 cow-calf pairs I'm raising in
cooperation with a local gentleman, Donnie Yantis). This is brand new for
both of us, although we have plenty of neighbors willing to provide advice
,and fortunately, a hand, when we need one.
I currently have 121 acres (see http://www.mysticplains.org), Donnie has
25 acres. His is mostly mixed csg (heavy with fescue) with a touch of
wsg, as is mine - although I'm working with John Murphy to favor the wsg
via burn controls. We have 50 acres that were tree sheared this year and
scheduled to be burn next spring.
Patch burn grazing sounds interesting, but I need to integrate it, and the
other lands we share, into something we can use year round. Your comments
about needing CSG is our biggest concern - since its unclear what
percentages of our lands we should have in each.
Donnie is sympathetic to our prairie restoration effort, but has a
priority on having healthy, eventually profitable, cattle. I'm looking to
mostly restore habitat for the Greater Prairie Chicken and think of the
cattle as great lawnmowers that I might make some money with as well as
fill my freezer with. Oddly, we work well together <smile>. We have
both
seen the MDC publications, and others, that show wsg usage in the summer,
and csg in the spring and fall - but thats about it, at least for me.
I could really use some help coming up for a comprehensive plan that would
both benefited the Prairie Chickens and other wildlife, while utilizing
cattle for field maintenance. Optimizing into the plan profitable cattle
management would be a big plus for me, and I suspect an absolute
requirement for many others. Alas, I haven't found such a plan available
anywhere. Do you have any recommendations, or is this actually "new
ground", e.g. a first time thing?
Kevin
ps. I run my own e-mail server, so could easily set up a formal
distribution list for this topic if that was desired. It could be either
public or private as the membership desired (or private for now, and made
public later...)
> While cost of production might seem that it could be less, there are
> problems. One is that optimum rate of gain (over 2 lb. for tenderness)
> can only be maintained for a few months--May through July on native
> warm-season, then they have to go to cool-season or something else. Brome
> and timothy will work in spring before going to nwsg but don't as much
as
> fescue in the fall. Fescue would give the beef an off taste in my
> opinion, so can too much clover. Planted annuals-wheat, barley, or oats
> would work well in fall. The other problem is that it takes nearly 24
> months to get an animal to slaughter weight on grass so longer ownership
> adds to cost of production. Less fat on the carcass means the producer
> gets paid for less weight. That can be made up with higher cost paid by
> the consumer but they have to recognize that the higher price per pound is
> because they aren't buying fat. That works for the prime cuts but
> marketing hamburger is the challenge.
>
> The other great challenge, without going into a lot of detail, will be
> convincing folks that grazing nwsg and forbs for yearling gain. We have
> hardly any examples outside of out pbg trials. Most nwsg grazing if far
> too late for anything but mature cows. Changing to optimum yearling gain,
> we'd also have to be careful to not create another 100% burn and
> early-intensive grazing program like in the Flint Hills. That's were
pbg
> comes in.
>
> Steve
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Kevin Carpenter [kevinc@mysticplains.org]
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 12:04 PM
> To: missouriprairie@yahoo.com
> Cc: Frank Oberle; Kevin Carpenter; Dave Murphy; Bill White; Dave Erickson;
> Bill McGuire; fowler@nwf.org; Steve Clubine; Max Alleger; Mari Macomber;
> "Carol Davit \" <caroldavit@yahoo.com>,
"@seaplace.org;
> Steve@seaplace.org; Mowry@seaplace.org; " <stevem4444@aol.com>,
> "@seaplace.org; Gelnar@seaplace.org; Dwaine@seaplace.org;
-@seaplace.org;
> Columbia@seaplace.org; MO@seaplace.org; "
<dwaine.gelnar@mo.usda.gov>,
> "@seaplace.org; Roger@seaplace.org; Hansen@seaplace.org; "
> <roger.hansen@mo.usda.gov>, "@seaplace.org; Tim@seaplace.org;
> Bryant@seaplace.org; " <tbryant@post-dispatch.com>,
"@seaplace.org;
> Kelley@seaplace.org; Tim@seaplace.org; -@seaplace.org;
> Columbia@seaplace.org; MO@seaplace.org; "
<tim.kelley@mo.usda.gov>,
> "@seaplace.org; Wayne@seaplace.org; Morton@seaplace.org; "
> <wayne2946@yahoo.com>, "@seaplace.org; Ted@seaplace.org;
> Cooper@seaplace.org; " <ted@tswllc.com>, "@seaplace.org;
> Steve@seaplace.org; Heying@seaplace.org; "
<ashlandbrdman@yahoo.com>,
> "@seaplace.org; Mike@seaplace.org; Currier@seaplace.org; "
> <mike.currier@dnr.mo.gov>, "@seaplace.org; Linda@seaplace.org;
> Tossing@seaplace.org; " <ltossing@aol.com>,
"@seaplace.org;
> Kelly@seaplace.org; Srigley-Werner@seaplace.org; "
> <kelly_srigleywerner@fws.gov>, "@seaplace.org;
John@seaplace.org;
> Burk@seaplace.org; " <jburknwtf@ktis.net>,
"@seaplace.org;
> Jim@seaplace.org; Wildman@seaplace.org; " <jwildman@tnc.org>,
> "@seaplace.org; George@seaplace.org; Seek@seaplace.org; "
<seekg@grm.net>,
> "@seaplace.org; Denny@seaplace.org; Donnell@seaplace.org; "
> <hddonnell@hotmail.com>, "@seaplace.org; Andrew@seaplace.org;
> Forbes@seaplace.org; " <andrew.forbes@mdc.mo.gov>,
"@seaplace.org;
> Alan@seaplace.org; Leary@seaplace.org; "
<alan.leary@modot.mo.gov>,
> "@seaplace.org; Amy@seaplace.org; Buechler@seaplace.org; "
> <abuechler@confedmo.org>, "@seaplace.org; Susan@seaplace.org;
> Hazelwood@seaplace.org; " <hazelwoods@mchsi.com>,
"@seaplace.org;
> Charley@seaplace.org; Burwick@seaplace.org; "
> <burwick.charles@sbcglobal.net>"@seaplace.org
> Subject: Re: pro 2 in california prairie grass fed beef
>
> One minor difference in opinion - I'm not sure we really need to sell
at a
> premium. In theory, our cost should be lower than grain feed beef. If so,
> we should be able to out-compete the grain feed business in the long run.
>
> If that happens, not only do we produce beef in a sustainable method, we
> put those that don't out of business.
>
> My concern is that the labor cost for this approach is going to be higher
> than the grain fed mechanized approach. The question becomes: "Does
the
> reduction in raising cost offset the additional labor and/or land
cost?".
>
> If it does, eventually the big producers will figure it out and flood the
> market with similar beef - perhaps not hormone and antibiotic free - but
> still with the the omega acid ratios and other related health benefits -
> for a lower cost then skipping the growth hormones for beef not destined
> for reproduction, and saving the beef that might otherwise die of illness.
>
> Kevin
>
>> Frank and group--
>>
>> Thanks for continuing this discussion. As I've been saying since
2006,
>> if
>> we're going to make a real difference on the landscape, our best
bet is
>> to
>> help existing producers or those interested in beginning a career in
>> sustainable agriculture to create new markets for grass fed beef.
>> Imagine
>> 20,000 or even 50,000 acres in Missouri with a mix of prairie grasses,
>> cool seasons and other forages that result in a healthy product that
can
>> be sold at a premium price and which leaves the landscape open,
>> beautiful
>> and full of wildlife.
>>
>> It is important to note that US Wellness Meats is located in Doniphan
>> and
>> that American Grassfed Beef is located in Monticello. We need to find
>> out
>> how many acres they graze, how many head they run and how many
customers
>> they serve. There is a difference between healthy beef and healthy,
>> wildlife-friendly landscapes, so we need to work for the right
balance.
>>
>> Based on the work that Max Alleger has done with Joe Horner and others
>> to
>> get the economic and marketing discussions going, I'm very hopeful
for
>> the
>> future.
>>
>> We need what investors call an "anchor customer" to supply
consistent
>> demand. Whether that is Whole Foods or Bill Kurtis' Tallgrass
Beef or
>> Chipotle or something else, I am confident that Missouri can produce
the
>> best tallgrass beef in the nation.
>>
>> Justin Johnson
>> Missouri Prairie Foundation
>> Executive Director
>> 573-356-7828
>> www.moprairie.org
>>
>> --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Frank Oberle <foberle@nemr.net> wrote:
>>
>> From: Frank Oberle <foberle@nemr.net>
>> Subject: Re: pro 2 in california prairie grass fed beef
>> To: "Frank Oberle" <foberle@nemr.net>, "Kevin
Carpenter"
>> <kevinc@mysticplains.org>, "Dave Murphy"
<dmurphy@confedmo.org>, "Bill
>> White" <bill.white@mdc.mo.gov>, "David Erickson"
>> <David.Erickson@mdc.mo.gov>, "Bill McGuire"
<Bill.McGuire@mdc.mo.gov>,
>> fowler@nwf.org, "Steve Clubine"
<Steve.Clubine@mdc.mo.gov>, "Max
>> Alleger"
>> <Max.Alleger@mdc.mo.gov>, "Mari Macomber"
>> <mmacomber@kirksvillecity.com>,
>> "Carol Davit (Large Files)" <caroldavit@yahoo.com>,
"Steve Mowry"
>> <stevem4444@aol.com>, "Justin Johnson"
<missouriprairie@yahoo.com>,
>> "Gelnar, Dwaine - Columbia, MO"
<dwaine.gelnar@mo.usda.gov>, "Roger
>> Hansen" <roger.hansen@mo.usda.gov>, "Tim Bryant"
>> <TBryant@post-dispatch.com>, "Kelley, Tim - Columbia,
MO"
>> <tim.kelley@mo.usda.gov>, "Wayne Morton"
<wayne2946@yahoo.com>, "Ted
>> Cooper" <ted@tswllc.com>, "Steve Heying"
<ashlandbrdman@yahoo.com>,
>> "Mike
>> Currier" <Mike.Currier@dnr.mo.gov>, "Linda
Tossing" <Ltossing@aol.com>,
>> "Kelly Srigley-Werner"
>> <Kelly_SrigleyWerner@fws.gov>, "John Burk"
<jburknwtf@ktis.net>, "Jim
>> Wildman" <jwildman@tnc.org>, "George Seek"
<seekg@grm.net>, "Denny
>> Donnell" <hddonnell@hotmail.com>, "Andrew Forbes"
>> <andrew.forbes@mdc.mo.gov>, "Alan Leary"
<alan.leary@modot.mo.gov>, "Amy
>> Buechler" <abuechler@confedmo.org>, "Susan
Hazelwood"
>> <hazelwoods@mchsi.com>, "Charley Burwick"
>> <burwick.charles@sbcglobal.net>
>> Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008, 9:47 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> More info on others telling a similar story:
>>
>>
http://www.grasslandbeef.com/StoreFront.bok?gclid=CNOv2aDUtJYCFQNbxwod5k02Lw
>>
>> http://www.eatwild.com/
>>
>> http://www.americangrassfedbeef.com/
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Frank Oberle
>> To: Kevin Carpenter ; Dave Murphy ; Bill White ; David Erickson ; Bill
>> McGuire ; fowler@nwf.org ; Steve Clubine ; Max Alleger ; Mari Macomber
;
>> Carol Davit (Large Files) ; Steve Mowry ; Justin Johnson ; Gelnar,
>> Dwaine
>> - Columbia, MO ; Roger Hansen ; Tim Bryant ; Kelley, Tim - Columbia,
MO
>> ;
>> Wayne Morton ; Ted Cooper ; Steve Heying ; Mike Currier ; Linda
Tossing
>> ;
>> Kelly Srigley-Werner ; John Burk ; Jim Wildman ; George Seek ; Denny
>> Donnell ; Andrew Forbes ; Alan Leary ; Amy Buechler ; Susan Hazelwood
;
>> Charley Burwick
>> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 6:04 PM
>> Subject: pro 2 in california prairie grass fed beef
>>
>>
>> Something to think About,
>> How could the extreme measures that PROPOSITION 2 create for
>> animal
>> confinement practices in California, if voters approve, benefit
>> conservation and bring added value to our grasslands here in the
>> Midwest.
>> Firstly, view the web site of PROP 2.
>> Next view the web site of tallgrass fed beef. Grass likes to grow
>> standing
>> in place. Cows like to move to growing grass. The current practices of
>> cutting grass and corn and bringing it to livestock confined to small
>> spaces seems odd. With all the Whole Food stores burgeoning in our
urban
>> areas and the consumer demand for less toxins in their foods--like
>> growth
>> hormones, lower cholesterol meats--I believe now is the time to
promote
>> the sustainability of our native forages and what science espouses and
>> the
>> healthiest choices. It is a win win for producers,
wildlife/environment
>> and the public's nutritional needs. frank oberle
>>
>> http://www.tallgrassbeef.com/index.php
>>
>> http://yesonprop2.com/
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
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</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table><br>